Comments on: In Defense of Campus DSA Amendment

By: Andrew Bowe

Andrew Bowe — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:35:50 +0000

I am semi-flip-flopping. To proceed in time…

By: David

David — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:09:47 +0000

Thanks for your input Mike. Mike sums up many of my points: that we’ve done a name change in the past, the need to create life-long democratic socialists dedicated to a democratic socialist project, and the need to build stronger bonds between DSA and YDS. I do want to point out, however, that Campus DSA is not College DSA. Since we aren’t calling ourselves Students for Democratic Socialism (Jason Schulman pointed out “SDS” was already taken), “campus” seemed like a logical choice. We do have several high school chapters currently (two of which have lasted several years). My own trip down memory lane reminds me that the original group I joined at Bowdoin College was called Students for Democratic Socialism. It’s since gone through several name changes, each reflecting a new group of students ideas and visions for the group.

By: Michael Key

Michael Key — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:50:57 +0000

That said, I just read the old comments and am sad that I am on the other side of the issue from Matt. I was hoping that we could agree to something someday. Also, I am struck with nostalgia and will always think of it as my days in YDS, whatever the name becomes in the future. By the way, YDS-JMU had a reunion recently. As an update on old comrades: Aaron Smith-Walter is working for JMU to solve the transit woes of the campus, Josh Cohen is living in Israel in a commune working for peace, Justin Stolzfus and Crystal Shrewsberry are both living in Pennsylvania, Adam Janzi (former head of Harrisonburg High YDS) is married and living in Harrisonburg, Adam Ferguson just got back from Khazakistan working for the Peace Corps and is deciding what to do next, and I am working toward a PhD in Microbiology at George Mason University in Virginia.

By: Michael Key

Michael Key — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:13:39 +0000

Hey comrades! Wow, we’re changing the name again? As one of the folks who advocated the change last time (from DSA-YS to YDS), I should stick to my guns… but I can see the logic in the name change, if only to strengthen ties to DSA. Back when we changed the name last time, I can tell you that from behind the sceens, it was done for the very purpose of distancing ourselves from DSA. I advocated it because that is what my old chapter (JMU) had named itself before we chartered with DSA-YS to begin with. In my intransigent youth, it seemed the thing to do… and YDS has a nice ring to it, though it can be made to be the derisive epitet “whitey ass” as a comment on our persistent problem of diversity by enterprising anarchists, but that is a story for another day. As I have gotten older (geez! I’m 30 now) I can see that the longevity of YDS depends largely on DSA and any chance that we have to make actual change will involve building life-long democratic socialists, not just a gaggle of rebellious youth who want to stick it to the “man” and their parents… until they graduate. Nonetheless, I don’t know about the “Campus” part… because of the reasons well-outlined by others already. Though, it is true that the majority of our successful chapters have all sprung from college and university campuses. I can think of only three instances within the past decade in which we had a functioning chapter which lasted more than a year which was not based in a college campus, and one of those was at a high-school. While my younger self would hate me for this (and probably be perplexed about me enthusiastically supporting a Democrat for the White House, as I do today) I whole-heartedly support the name-change to something which mentions the parent organization. As Lucas mentioned, there will be some logistical concerns, but we have managed it in the past… and it is a good excuse to print new fliers, update the website and breathe some new life into the organization. In Solidarity,-Michael Key (yds_man@yahoo.com)

By: Maria

Maria — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:49:37 +0000

I am in support of changing our name to something that includes the full “DSA” in it, and I lean more towards YDSA or DSAY than Campus DSA because of the concern about turning off non-students. However, let’s just be honest about the fact that we’re mostly students (though I, after all, am not a student). The need to bridge the divide between DSA and YDS is so great that I support this change and believe it will strengthen the work that David and the CC have already put into on-the-ground relationship building and work with DSAers. It doesn’t have to be an either-or decision.

By: David Duhalde

David Duhalde — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 05:25:54 +0000

Campus DSA aside: I didn’t resign from my position, the job is a two-year term. This isn’t the first time someone thought I resigned. It’s not a huge deal, but I want folks to know that my term was up and that’s why I won’t be on staff in the fall. I want to make that clear.

By: matt

matt — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:19:48 +0000

The simple point remains the same: the proposed amendment excludes youth who are not affiliated with a campus. It is unrealistic to assume youth who are not on campus would be comfortable in a space explicitly designated for campus socialists. Why should we change our name when there are any number of alternative changes to our organizational priorities that could lead to producing stronger ties between DSA and YDS without excluding a massive percentage of our potential constituencies. If the real problem truly is the lack of integration between the youth and the adult sections, I also do not see why people assume that simply a name change will improve things. It seems to me that people are really arguing that we need a stronger organizing initiative to produce integration from the bottom-up. I agree with this and think that it primarily be the work of the YDS staff and very committed chapter activists. Why don’t we wait and see if the new organizer (with David resigning this summer/fall) and the incoming CC and chapter activist cohorts can actually produce the change in priorities through practice before we start changing our constitution. To me, like all bad constitutional amendments, this one puts the cart before the horse. Furthermore, I want to go back to a much earlier and much harped on point that this amendment does have deep and important stakes for us as democratic socialists. We are committed to organizing all youth not just socialists who happen to be on campus. We are an organization that is committed to organizing around issues of racism, elitism, sexism, and homophobia that are especially deleterious to working class youth who are not on campus. Despite the arguments of long-time academics in this conversation, we need to recognize that campus is only one, incredibly small and privileged, space for socialist organizing and affecting reforms. Without denying the university as an important space for activism, we must recognize the limited scope that this amendment would force upon us. The truth is that if we change our name to CDSA there will be no more YDS, that is, no more young democratic socialist organization built by and for all democratic socialist youth. This, I think, is not melodramatic but a simple consequence of the argument. I deeply and sincerely propose that this amendment be tabled until we can see if better integration can be produced through on-the-ground organizing and activism.

By: Andrew Bowe

Andrew Bowe — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 02:03:46 +0000

I agree with the responses that David has made and I am a lot more sympathetic with this decision now. I agree with changing the name to become more solidified with DSA but would encourage that we change our name to reflect grand changes within our organization. I do not support the name change DS ‘A’, and would suggest that we think about changing the name to become USA based. If our organization changes our name to reflect the movement away from “America” centering, I will personally draft a constitutional amendment for the DSA convention suggesting a name change there, hopefully or maybe with the help of others. I think that this would do a lot if we begin to look at inward criticism and to me this would be empowering and symbolic of uniting DSA and YDS.
In response to the earlier criticism that this is a rediculous and a not so important change, I do not agree. Do you know how many struggles MLK had with the Black Power movement based on language? Word choice and language are two ways that we transmit elements of our culture, this change reflects our struggles for cultural and international sensitivity. Other examples of name and language criticisms have taken place in the LGBTQ, Queer, gay and lesbian communities. In particular there is a lot of criticism of folks that continually say GLBT, symbolically placing male homosexuals in front of the other sexual preferences. I think that a large amount of criticism that has taken place within these communityies has been influential and empowering. Because we are an organization that continually seeks criticism and leadership from folks that have been influenced by ‘post modern’ , ‘post and anti-neo colonial’, feminist, and anti-racist work I think that this critique needs to sprout change that corresponds to taking control of coherentist modes of utilizing language.I agree with the truthful advertising – “campus” - criticism and the elitist and class based analysis of that word. I think David’s intentions are very much on target, but I would like a different word. I would say students, but SDS is obviously already taken. I think Youth is a word that somewhat signifies a deconstruction of age binaries. ‘Student’ suggests a deconstruction of ’learning’ because staff members and folks that do not currently learn in ‘educational institutions’ are also in various intersubjective processes of learning and ‘cognitive collaborations’ with communities. I am sure that we can brainstorm some words that would reflect both the criticisms and the truthful advertising. Forgive me if this is confusing, but I would like to see some of these conscious efforts in mind, let me know if it makes sense, does not make sense, or seems like an unnecessary criticism so that we can continue having a conversation on these matters.

By: Vickens

Vickens — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 01:10:13 +0000

I never liked the name YDS but never made a deal about it cause the name is not us. We as each individual are us. A name could never describe us more than the work we actually do. We should be more concerned with representing new age socialism instead what the name is perceived to be about. The name could be Socialist.Hunting.Institutionalized.Traps. for all and if we were doing what we supposed to do it could actually make sense. I think getting closer to DSA is sensible if not obvious. I also agree with who made the statements about how much it would cost. Yet It would not be too hard for me but I would have to update my site to include the new name. I put more thoughts down as they come…hopefully noone said what i did. I ll go with any name as long as it is not S.H.I.T. : )

By: Lucas Shapiro

Lucas Shapiro — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:07:25 +0000

Hey comrades,Good discussion all around. Wish I had more time to chime in, but here’s a few logistical considerations related to Seth’s last post. Whether one supports or opposes the name change, any “re-branding” of YDS will entail:1) Costs of reprinting materials (as Seth mentioned… though we don’t have much already printed in storage) 2) Significant time devoted to re-designing/updating aspects of several websites (DSA, YDS, myspace, facebook, CampusProgress, Idealist, Wikipedia, etc.) 3) An even greater amount of time to redesigning our materials (possibly coming up with a new logo, changing org name references in all flyers, info sheets, etc.) 4) And perhaps most significantly, our “rebanding” will raise questions and some degree of confusion with folks both inside and outside the organization. These will subside over time, but if this passes we must expect a period of having to regularly explain to folks that we’re changed our name. Some folks who may be vaguely familiar with us may not make the connection to the re-named group. And still others will want to know why we changed our name at all. If we don’t feel that the narrative of why the change is needed now is convincing to others outside the organization, we might also want to reconsider. Would those in favor of this amendment feel comfortable explaining the name change to coalition allies (where we are trying to project a solid reputation), to potencial recruits, etc.? What would this proposed name change communicate to those who may or may not be members?5) And lastly… David mentioned that three letter acronyms are spelled out.. and that four letter acronyms may be pronounced (ex: IUSY=you-see). C-DSA or Campus-DSA would in fact make the name longer to say out loud. Just an observation.All the above points are just items to consider as we move forward. I frankly haven’t made up my mind yet… but as someone who was on staff and can imagine the extra layer of work a name change would entail, I’m a bit weary. Unidad y lucha, Lucas