Comments on: Poorly Defined: A Personal Reflection on the Fluid Meaning of Socialism in the US Presidential Election and Beyond http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond // Culture. Consciousness. Critical Thought. // Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:43:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Bhaskar Sunkara http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond/comment-page-1#comment-27458 Bhaskar Sunkara Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:42:02 +0000 http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond#comment-27458 Obama certainly isn't a socialist but Norman Thomas post-1930s didn't really advocate for anything more than welfare capitalism and solidarity with progressive movements, sounds more social democratic than anything else, here is a quote from him: <br/><br/>"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."<br/><br/>Clearly his socialist vision wasn't one of a radical shift in power from the exploiters to the exploited, a sweeping democratization and dealienation of society, but rather a piecemail effort to redistribute wealth in order to decrease inequality.<br/><br/>Now Obama is no Eugene Debs, that I can say with confidence.  <br/><br/>I guess interpretations of the meaning of socialism are very subjective things. Hoxha, Stalin, Hellen Keller and Francois Mitterand didn't all think they were one, right? Obama certainly isn’t a socialist but Norman Thomas post-1930s didn’t really advocate for anything more than welfare capitalism and solidarity with progressive movements, sounds more social democratic than anything else, here is a quote from him:

“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.”

Clearly his socialist vision wasn’t one of a radical shift in power from the exploiters to the exploited, a sweeping democratization and dealienation of society, but rather a piecemail effort to redistribute wealth in order to decrease inequality.

Now Obama is no Eugene Debs, that I can say with confidence. 

I guess interpretations of the meaning of socialism are very subjective things. Hoxha, Stalin, Hellen Keller and Francois Mitterand didn’t all think they were one, right?

]]> By: Ben http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond/comment-page-1#comment-25645 Ben Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:25:16 +0000 http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond#comment-25645 Thanks for the link, whoever just posted it(was it Erik?).Excellent letter by Frank, and I have already written a comment on the site commending him. Thanks for the link, whoever just posted it(was it Erik?).Excellent letter by Frank, and I have already written a comment on the site commending him.

]]> By: YDS http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond/comment-page-1#comment-25422 YDS Sat, 08 Nov 2008 13:36:19 +0000 http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond#comment-25422 DSA National Director Frank Llewellyn's letter was published in the <em>Richmond Times-Dispatch</em>: http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/opinion/oped.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-11-07-0024.html<br/><br/>The National Political Committee has drafted letters that locals can for a letter writing campaign.  This will also be announced on the next YDS e-blast.<br/><br/> DSA National Director Frank Llewellyn’s letter was published in the Richmond Times-Dispatch: http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/opinion/oped.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-11-07-0024.html

The National Political Committee has drafted letters that locals can for a letter writing campaign.  This will also be announced on the next YDS e-blast.

]]> By: Ben Kreider http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond/comment-page-1#comment-25386 Ben Kreider Fri, 07 Nov 2008 22:35:16 +0000 http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond#comment-25386 I would be curious to see if any letters by DSA members were actually published.  I would be fairly surprised if many (or any) were.  The mainstream media in America, despite allegedly being liberal, rarely allows any voices to be heard that threaten the status-quo of corporate capitalism.  As journalist and author Christian Parenti has said, censorship is often more insidious and powerful in free societies, where people have the illusion of free speech. I would be curious to see if any letters by DSA members were actually published.  I would be fairly surprised if many (or any) were.  The mainstream media in America, despite allegedly being liberal, rarely allows any voices to be heard that threaten the status-quo of corporate capitalism.  As journalist and author Christian Parenti has said, censorship is often more insidious and powerful in free societies, where people have the illusion of free speech.

]]> By: Andrew Williams http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond/comment-page-1#comment-25326 Andrew Williams Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:26:30 +0000 http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond#comment-25326 "That settled for me the simple fact that the definition of what makes one a socialist is rather fluid." Oh, absolutely, but I think there are still some obvious uniting trends among the various "true" socialisms, most of which we don't find in America today. There are socialist-friendly ideologies in America today (the progressive left, left-leaning populism, the various green ideologies), which provide fertile ground for a movement which needs both uniting and an impetus for greater agitation. Failure by the Obama presidency to deliver on healthcare, union rights, and climate change will hopefully do that. “That settled for me the simple fact that the definition of what makes one a socialist is rather fluid.”

Oh, absolutely, but I think there are still some obvious uniting trends among the various “true” socialisms, most of which we don’t find in America today. There are socialist-friendly ideologies in America today (the progressive left, left-leaning populism, the various green ideologies), which provide fertile ground for a movement which needs both uniting and an impetus for greater agitation. Failure by the Obama presidency to deliver on healthcare, union rights, and climate change will hopefully do that.

]]> By: David Duhalde http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond/comment-page-1#comment-25212 David Duhalde Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:19:36 +0000 http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond#comment-25212 I think the letter writing campaign is a good idea, and I know folks did it on their own.  Ben, once again, DSA doesn't have the money for put out ads.  If we did, we'd have had ads out before. I think the letter writing campaign is a good idea, and I know folks did it on their own.  Ben, once again, DSA doesn’t have the money for put out ads.  If we did, we’d have had ads out before.

]]> By: Ben Kreider http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond/comment-page-1#comment-25176 Ben Kreider Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:31:07 +0000 http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond#comment-25176 Nice job, David. Jason's link hit the nail right on the head.  It's amazing how hypocritical the GOP can be.  Palin wouldn't know "socialism" if it hit her over the head.  It's amusing and sad how much of invoke the "S-word" to cause fear.I think DSA should have taken out an ad in a major newspaper, or at least started a letter-writing campaign to some major newspapers, explaining what, as members of the U.S.'s largest socialist organization, we REALLY stand for.  There's so much more to socialism than progressive taxation.  I mean, progressive taxation is just LOGICAL--it's not socialist, really! Nice job, David.

Jason’s link hit the nail right on the head.  It’s amazing how hypocritical the GOP can be.  Palin wouldn’t know “socialism” if it hit her over the head.  It’s amusing and sad how much of invoke the “S-word” to cause fear.I think DSA should have taken out an ad in a major newspaper, or at least started a letter-writing campaign to some major newspapers, explaining what, as members of the U.S.’s largest socialist organization, we REALLY stand for.  There’s so much more to socialism than progressive taxation.  I mean, progressive taxation is just LOGICAL–it’s not socialist, really!

]]> By: Jason Schulman http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond/comment-page-1#comment-24897 Jason Schulman Wed, 29 Oct 2008 03:18:48 +0000 http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond#comment-24897 http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/isnt-sarah-palin-socialist-too http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/isnt-sarah-palin-socialist-too

]]> By: Andrew Bowe http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond/comment-page-1#comment-24830 Andrew Bowe Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:04:12 +0000 http://theactivist.org/blog/poorly-defined-a-personal-reflection-on-the-fluid-meaning-of-socialism-the-in-us-presidential-election-and-beyond#comment-24830 "That settled for me the simple fact that the definition of what makes one a socialist is rather fluid." Good lead in to this argument. This was the point that I could have never made as straight forward and accessible as you did. Socialism ought to have some fluidity- this is the rupture of the modern and the post-modern. The late capitalist and the post-capitalist.Definitions are intangible. “That settled for me the simple fact that the definition of what makes one a socialist is rather fluid.” Good lead in to this argument. This was the point that I could have never made as straight forward and accessible as you did. Socialism ought to have some fluidity- this is the rupture of the modern and the post-modern. The late capitalist and the post-capitalist.Definitions are intangible.

]]>